1 too much − 6 February, 2007
From: LSDC
To: AJ
Date: Feb 6, 2007 7:23 AM
Subject too much
hi love....
thanx for joining me for dinner... er 12:50am dinner.. of um RICE of course :-)
rice and egg and barbecue sauce
this is probably going to be another one of those sorta emails not designed to read in one sitting.
i mean maybe it WOULD have been (an email designed for one sitting) if i had not turned on my ipod music player and been assaulted reminded and re-invigorated with the power of three dimensional words... which reminds me ...
" i once had the rather naive idea that it would be sufficient - indeed entirely sufficient- to say each thing exactly once... Only gradually did i understand that saying a thing once is tantamount to saying it not at all.. it is indeed sufficient for people to hear the laws of thermodynamics once, and to understand that they're written down somewhere, should they ever be needed again, but there are other truths, of a different human order, that must be enunciated again and again and again and again - in the same words and in different words: again and again and again....
And when Jesus spoke in Galilee, there were those who asked: 'Didn't i hear him say these things in Capernaum or Jerusalem or Judaea or Gennesaret or Casesarea Phillippe?' of course they heard them in all these places. All the public statements attributed to Jesus in the gospels could be delivered in three hours or less, and if he didn't REPEAT himself everywhere he went, then he was silent during ninety-nine percent of his public life...." ~The Story of B by D.Quinn
You've heard this bit before... and once more i know it SEEMS like we could go on and on in an endless looping conversation about the same ideas, thoughts, feelings, rules, expectations, past, present and future on ad infinitum and that we are not 'getting anywhere' but amazingly truly - "where a problem is, so too is the answer".. Or perhaps even more specifically it is within the problem itself. Within the feeling of discontent itself. Within the very powerful deliberate full FEELING of the discontentment itself- the internal and external processing of it from within yourself and then back out of yourself toward the outside world or in this case person (me). By reaching in and becoming intimately aware of the seeds of discontent- the conscious eyes-open fully aware open unfettered examination, exploration of and specific articulation of the discontentment.... within this feeling, within the very words that you use to articulate the issue with - HERE hidden and wrapped in a long lasting protective outer shell are the seeds - the important little core nuggets of feelings, ideas, thoughts that are also the 'answer' the solution the remedy of the discontent.
There is nothing particularly magical about this process and for all of it's benefits, it is still FAR from expedient. It is not the always the BEST way and certainly not the fastest or often not even the most efficient way to handle issues, conflicts, incompatibilities or discontentments. Sure mutual compromise is easier or even the simple ignoring of issues or how about just the top-down power struggle type of plays that you once mentioned most often characterize all romantic relationships- yeah ok all of these approaches will 'work'... and i totally understand how/why important how something WORKS in the real world is important to someone such as yourself....
But all of these methods - even something as popular and yummy safe sounding as win-win compromises... they are still actually lose-lose compromises - as in yes i get what i want you and you get what you want but i give up a little (read: lose) and you give up a little (read: lose) or order to get there..Sure maybe it is a 'fair trade' even equitable.. but i am not striving for 'equity' or 'fairness' or even 'reasonable-ness'... these are all fine admirable things and really only the most BASIC thing that should be demanded of ALL relationships - even the most unimportant/trivial type of relationships.. In relationships such as yours and mine in your most intimate, romantic love relationships i pray that you always aiming for something MUCH higher than simply 'fair', or 'equitable' or 'reasonable' when face with important core conflicts, problems, issues or incompatibilities... I guess what i am trying to stress is this round-and-round, back-and-forth talking in circles stating and restating the obvious, the asking, exploring the "how comes" and "why's" and "why nots" it is not just an exercise in futility.. It is not just a method of win/lose looking for the cracks in the story to exploit or a delay the inevitable negotiate and re-negotiate into a stalemate lose/lose- it is not manipulation or salesmanship, it is not trickery or changing of minds persuasion.. It is that communication thing you mentioned.. it is that REAL, full-on, honest communication that couples do not do.. It is the UNDERSTANDING of minds.. Understand of your own thoughts feelings ideas and then allowing me to understand as well... It is me being able to explore understand my own feelings and then being able to express and have YOU understand them as well... It is a very simple basic yet complex thing... simple as a flower - and that's a complicated thing"
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too
Our little lives get complicated
It's a simple thing
Simple as a flower
And that's a complicated thing
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
AHHHH
My ( WHOLE ) world is your world
People like to hear their names
I'm no exception
Please call my name
Call my name
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
AHHHH
When you're down
It's a long way up
When you're up
It's a long way down
It's all the same thing
No new tale to tell
~Love and Rockets
See - the process itself is even part of the solution. The understanding and coming to know, and not just know-in-your-head-know, but FEEL know-in-your-heart-know that we are on the same page.. We want the same thing. That we are MUCH more alike than we are different that we are not really so separate at all - reminds me - cooking my rice tonight made me realize that i have NEVER met anyone else that keeps the cooking time up on the microwave the way you and i do.. i love that but ok let me stay focused here... When two people come to truly understand each other. The inside of each others hearts the true feelings behind all the words, roles, pain, rules, gladness, hopes, fears, dreams etc- -the 'problem' this temporal issue this constructed huge THING or incompatibility.. the problem really does simply solve itself spontaneously and effortlessly without any required sort of enforcement or other layer of motivation... We will want the same thing we will strive for the same thing... the ( duh? ) plain truth is if we are human and in a love relationship we already DO want the same thing. All roads lead to Rome - we just do not realize this yet. or ok maybe we realize it but we do not understand it in our hearts how can this be or as you say - talking out of two sides of your mouth -
Don't believe what you hear
Don't believe what you see
If you just close your eyes
You can feel the enemy
When I first met you girl
You had fire in your soul
What happened your face
Of melting in snow
Now it looks like this
And you can swallow
Or you can spit
You can throw it up
Or choke on it
And you can dream
So dream out loud
You know that your time is coming 'round
So don't let the bastards grind you down
No, nothing makes sense
Nothing seems to fit
I know you'd hit out
If you only knew who to hit
And I'd join the movement
If there was one I could believe in
Yeah I'd break bread and wine
If there was a church I could receive in
'cause I need it now
To take a cup
To fill it up
To drink it slow
I can't let you go
I must be an acrobat
To talk like this
And act like that
And you can dream
So dream out loud
And don't let the bastards grind you down
Oh, it hurts baby
(What are we going to do now it's all been said)
(No new ideas in the house and every book has been read)
And I must be an acrobat
To talk like this
And act like that
And you can dream
So dream out loud
And you can find
Your own way out
You can build
And I can will
And you can call
I can't wait until
You can stash
And you can seize
In dreams begin
Responsibilities
And I can love
And I can love
And I know that the tide is turning 'round
So don't let the bastards grind you down
~U2
"Anywhere in the world, East of West, you can walk up to a stranger and say, "let me show you how to be saved," and you'll be understood. You may not be believed or welcomed when you speak the words, but you will surely be understood. The fact that you'll be understood SHOULD astonish you, but it doesn't, because you've been prepared from childhood by a hundred thousand voices- a million voices - to understand these words yourself. You know instantly what i means to be "saved", and it doesn't matter in the least whether you believe in the salvation referred to. You know in addition, as a completely distinct matter, that being saved involves some method or other. The method might be a ritual- baptism, extreme unction, the sacrament of penance, the performance of ceremonial works, or anything at all. It might, on the other hand, be an inner action of repentance, love, faith or meditation. Again in addition, and again as a completely distinct matter, you know that the method has not been discovered, developed or tested in any scientific laboratory; either God has revealed it to someone or someone has discovered it in a supra normal state of consciousness. Although initially received by Divine means, the method is nonetheless transmittable by normal means which explains why it's possible for a perfectly ordinary individual to offer the method to others.
But all this barely scratches the surface of what is meant when someone says, "Let me show you how to be saved." A complex and profound worldview is implicit in such a statement. According to this worldview, the human condition is such that everyone is born in an unsaved state and remains unsaved until the requisite ritual or inner action is performed, and all who die in this state either lose their chance for eternal happiness with God or fail to escape the weary cycle of death and rebirth.
Because we have been schooled from birth to understand all this, we're not at all puzzled to hear someone say, "Let me show you how to be saved." Salvation is as plain and ordinary to us as sunrise or rainfall. But now try to imagine how these words would be received in a culture that had not notion that people were born in an unsaved state, that had not notion that people need to be saved. A statement like this, which seems plain and ordinary to us, would be completely meaningless and incomprehensible to them, in part and in whole. Not a word of it would make sense to them.
Imagine all the work you'd have to do to prepare the people of this culture for your statement. You'd have to persuade them that they (and indeed all humans) are born in a state in which they require salvation. You'd have to explain to them what being unsaved means- and what being saved means. You'd have to persuade them that achieving salvation is vitally important-indeed the most important thing in the world. You have to convince them that you have a method that assures success. You'd have to explain where the method came from and why it works. You'd have to assure them that they can master this method, and that it will work as well for them as it does for you....
if you can imagine the difficult you would encounter in this enterprise, you can imagine the difficulty i encounter every time i address an audience. It's seldom possible for me simply to open my mouth and say the things that are on my mind. Rather, I must begin by laying the groundwork for ideas that are obvious to me but fundamentally alien to my listeners...." ~The Story of B by D.Quinn
you can imagine the difficulty in explaining the judeo-christian cultural views, norms and 'reasonable' boundaries to someone of a Polunesian or Oceania culture
Perhaps the most publicized, and accordingly overrated, aspect of Polynesian culture is its sensuality: as in many other aspects of life, the Polynesians generally took a very direct, realistic, and quite physical approach to gratification of the senses. But there was no abnormal focus or concentration on any aspect of sensual gratification such as is seen in many other cultures where, for example, eating, drinking, or sex have become the object of great cultural elaboration. This lack of elaboration may be due in part to limitations imposed by the environment. The flora of Polynesia did not, for example, provide a very good basis for elaboration of cuisine, as the number of edible plants was rather restricted, and there was a dearth of spices. In general, however, this balanced approach to sensual gratification seems to be just another reflection of the Polynesian straightforward approach to the world. Polynesian culture, for example, is generally thought to have been characterized by extreme sexual promiscuity, but such is not the case. Definite restrictions were placed on sexual behavior, though the limits of acceptable behaviour were indeed much wider than in many other cultures of the world. Children were permitted freedom of sexual expression; from puberty on, sexual activity was strongly encouraged, limited only by incest restrictions (which were not stringent) and considerations of social prestige. Parents would become concerned (emphasis added) if daughters were not sought after for sexual favours, and premarital pregnancy only enhanced a girl's attractiveness. Public intercourse was engaged in during certain religious festivals and crisis rite ceremonies as a means to promote general fertility. There was, however, no pathological elaboration of sex for its own sake. Polynesian art, for example, is strikingly devoid of sexual content. There are occasional references made to sexual activity in native Polynesian oral literature, but many of these have to do with creative acts of the Polynesian gods, for the Polynesians saw the process of the creation of the universe as having taken place in a manner similar to human procreation. There is no corpus of Polynesian literature analogous to pornography.
Religious laws controlled eating more than they controlled sex.
The Western concept of marriage did not exist in Hawai'i , and even if a common definition of marriage is applied sexual genital interactions were socially accepted in many <<nonmarital>> and non-committed relations. The concepts of premarital and extramarital sexual activities were absent, and it was probably true of Hawai'i, as it was said to have been true of much of Polynesia, that <<there are no people in the world who indulge themselves more in their sensual appetites than these>> (Ellis, 1782, Vol. 2, p. 153).
Traditional Hawai'ian society was culturally complex. Sex was seen as being positive and pleasurable, and although many cultural precepts existed concerning nonsexual aspects of life, the attitude toward sex was comparatively open and permissive. Sexual needs and desires were seen as being as basic as the need to eat, and the young were instructed in matters of sex. Adults attended physically to the sexual development of the young, including the preparation of their genitals. These sexual interactions between adults and the young, from the society's perspective, were seen as benefiting the young individual rather than as gratifying the adult. The sexual desire of an adult for a nonadult, heterosexual or homosexual, was accepted, and the regular erotic preference by an adult for a young individual probably was viewed more as being unusual than as being intrinsically bad. As Sahlins put it, the Hawai'ian <<social system [was] constructed out of passion, structured out of sentiment.>> Even the basic Hawai ian creation story <<The Kumulipo,>> is highly sexual It starts with the mating of the male god Wakea and the female god Papa and, throughout, turns to many sexual encounters .
The Hawai'ian approach to sex and sex education seemed to be fruitful in many ways. Sexual dysfunctions such as impotence and inhibitions of desire or lack of orgasm among males or females, common enough in Western society today, reportedly were unknown or at least rare (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, pp. 84, 97). Sex was a salve and glue for the total society.
The absence of concern with sexually transmitted disease (this affliction arrived with the first sailors from Europe in 1778), the lack of concern with illegitimacy, a permissive attitude toward multiple sex partners, and a feeling of obligation to sexually instruct in deed as well as in theory, freed the tradiional Hawai'ians from most of contemporary Western society's great fears associated with sexual expression. To the Hawai'ians, sex was definitely not a subject or a set of behaviors to be avoided or reserved only for adults or committed partners nor were sexual activities restricted to certain time, place or occasion.
To know about sexual interactions between adults and the young in traditonal Hawai'i is most instructive, because these interactions illustrate the power that cultural tradition wields not only in contributing to the organization of behavior but also in shaping humans' self-reported attitudes toward behavior patterns.
__________
Until the age of 4-6, young males and females played together. Between 4 and 6, young males went to live in the hale nua, where, through observation, they learned sex roles and sex-related expectations from adult males. Unlike traditions that were present in some other parts of Oceania (see Schiefenhovel, 1990), there is no evidence that ritualized adult-male/adolescent-male sexual activities were practiced in traditional Hawai'i.
Similarly, young females learned from the older women, with whom they remained. They were taught to look forward to sex and appreciate its pleasures. Both sexes heard the sex-positive conversations, songs, and stories of their elders and learned accordingly. By the age of puberty sexual exploration with same-sex age mates was actively encouraged.
Sex training was direct and firsthand. Young individuals learned of coitus and sex play from instruction, direct observation, and practice. As they slept in the family house (hale noa), they observed their parents having coitus. <<Public privacy>> among the Mangaian Islanders, as it was described by Marshall (1971, p. 108), probably is similar to the <<privacy>> that was found in Hawai'i and elsewhere in Polynesia: <<[A Mangaian may copulate, at any age, in the single room of a hut that contains from five to fifteen family members of all ages — as have his ancestors before him. His daughter may receive and make love with each of her varied nightly suitors in the same room .... But under most conditions, all of this takes place without social notice: everyone seems to be looking in another direction.>>
__________
The young Hawai'ian also acquired sex education in day-by-day exposure to precepts, practices, and attitudes concerning sex. Traditionally, . . . childish curiosity about sex was satisfied, with neither guilt nor shame instilled>> (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, p. 249). With variations depending upon rank, region, and social circumstances, the young individual learned the lore of kapu, social restraints and preferences, and attitudes toward both sex for procreation or love and sex for fun and pleasure. Each kind of sex was appreciated for its own value
AGE AND PREPARATION FOR FIRST COITUS
Individuals of both sexes were expected to initiate and participate in coitus at puberty, although sexual activity, play, instruction, and so forth occurred much earlier. For instance, as part of exploratory play, the young investigated each other's genitals, and young males and females might masturbate each other heterosexually or homosexually. This activity occurred without adult disapproval, and it was considered to be an introduction to adulthood. Casual intercourse before adolescence was not an uncommon experience both for males and females
Ellis (1782, Vol. 2, p. 153) wrote of sexual expression in Oceania: <<The ladies are very lavish of their favors ... and some of their attachments seemed purely the effects of affection. They are initiated into this way of life at a very early period; we saw some, who could not be more than ten years old.>>
The time considered <<right>> to start coittis was not so much based on chronological age as on ability or maturity. A male doing adult work or holding adult responsibilities was considered to be <<old enough.>> A young male who could grow taro or catch many fish was considered mature. A female's first menses usually signaled she was ready for coitus if she had not already experienced it. Kamehameha the Great, who unified all the Hawai'ian Islands, took his first <<wife,>> Ka'ahu-manu, when she was 13 ; he probably was several years older than she.
As physical signs of maturity appeared. the young Hawai'ian received more formal sex education. Among commoners, this education was traditionally and usually the responsibility of the tütü wahine for the females and the tütü kane (<<grandfather>>) for the males. Suggs (1966) elaborated on the early sexual experiences of pubertal males with married females in their 30's and 40's in the Marquesas Islands, who <<take special pains to be pleasing and patient with them . . . a source of enjoyment for many Marquesan women>> (p. 61). For young females of the Marquesas Islands, the first coital experience reportedly is earlier than it is for young males before menarche —and occurs unplanned with an adult male.
Among ali'i, an experienced chiefess, usually a blood <<aunt,>> instructed and trained the young males. Similarly, young females were trained by their <<aunt,>> by another experienced woman, or by a tutu kane. The training concerned not only what to expect and what to do but also how to increase or maximize pleasure. Less formal but similar training was afforded to commoners. There was practice as well as theory. A young male was taught <<timing>> and how to please a female in order to help her attain orgasm. A young female was taught how to touch and caress a male and move her body to please them both. She was taught how to constrict and rhythmically contract her vaginal muscles. Several of the informants who were interviewed remember being so instructed. One adult female told of being instructed on how to get her vagina to <<wink.>>
These adult/nonadult sexual interactions were socially approved behaviors. Kamehameha the Great, again can be used as an example. Before he aligned himself with Ka' ahu-manu, he had an infant, while <<still a beardless youth,>> by Chiefess Kanekapoli, a wife of KalaniopuU (Judd, 1976, p. 71). The infant was welcome and was accepted without stigma, as was any pregnancy resulting from such unions (Handy and Pukui, 1958, p. 110). For adults not to have given such practical education would have been unthinkable - a dereliction of duty.
Most important for Hawai' ian society, the young learned of sexual humor. Among the Hawai'ians, sex was and remains a rich source of humor and enjoyment. In everyday conversation and in song and story, it was considered to be an <<art form>> to speak using sexual double entendres (kaona). One well- known folk song, still sung, uses the vowels as erotic expressions; their elongated sounds are highly sexual: aaaaaaa, eeeeeee, iiiiiii, ooooooo, uuuuuuu (Johnson, 1983). Erotic imagery was, and remains, common in speech, poetry, and songs: coconut tree bending over a female; a digging stick spreading a female's legs.
Suggs (1966, p. 39) considered the early manifestations of infantile and childhood sexual behavior, including sexual behavior with adults, to be among the most distinguishing features of Marquesan sexual behavior. Many of the activities he described, however, are similar to activities that were present in Hawai'i and elsewhere in Oceania. Oliver (1974, pp. 458-459), for example, reported on adultinonadult sexual behavior in Tahiti and quoted the missionary Orsmond from 1832: <<In all Tahitians as well as officers who come in ships there is a cry for little girls,>> and older females, when in a position to choose, preferred younger males. Marshall (1971, p. 126) described the routine early sexual encounters of young males and females in Mangaia as being with older, experienced males and females.
Neither physical appearance nor age mattered where coitus-for-genealogy was involved. The main concern in such instances was to preserve the highest level of mana and rank and to not dilute the family prestige (Kamakau, 1961, p. 208). if no offspring resulted, the sexual behavior itself was considered to be inconsequential.
The word for orgasm, le 'a, also means <<fun>> and <<joy>> (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, p. 83), an appropriate term in the Hawai'ian language because the object of sexual interactions was mutual happiness and pleasure. There were no restrictions regarding any positions for intercourse. The appellation probably is undeserved, but the posture in which the male squats between the supine female's legs has been called the <<Oceanic position>> since its description by Malinowski
Sexual positions rarely are mentioned in ethnographies of Hawai'i, while other potentially curious or <<uncouth>> matters are. For example, oral, anal, masturbatory, and other kinds of sexual behavior were documented practices. Types of homosexual behavior were accepted and, reportedly, were unstigmatized; many of the royalty were known for their ambisexual activities
According to the reports of Westerners. extensive foreplay was not a standard part of coitus. Many reports and stories tell of an adult male and an adult female meeting on a trail, in the bush, or on a secluded beach and engaging in coitus immediately, with little conversation and few preliminaries. This kind of behavior also has been reported as having been the norm elsewhere in Oceania, e.g.. among Mangaian Islanders (Marshall. 1971, pp. 118-121) and Marquesas Islanders (Suggs, 1966, p. 98). Note-worthy in regard to such behavior is that orgasm for both the female and the male was not reported to be a problem despite the briefness of the encounter. Both males and females reportedly climaxed easily and frequently in traditional societies of Oceania.
It is possible that some of the reports of seemingly promiscuous and nonrelational sex that occurred in Oceania might reflect sampling and Western-oriented biases. This possibility has to be considered, because such interactions are not consistent with contemporary. versions of traditional songs, which speak of erotic and sensual courtship and foreplay.
VIRGINITY, PROMISCUITY, AND MONOGAMY
Aside from restrictions of class and family, there were few sex kapu for common people. Masturbation, sex between uncommitted individuals, paired individuals having lovers, liaisons, polyandry, polygyny, homosexual patterns of behavior, and such were all accepted practices . Sex was considered to be good and healthy for all, young and old included.
Virginity was considered to be a virtue only for female chiefs where genealogy was crucial. With this point in mind, ali'i —particularly the first-born of either sex, with special status rights— often were betrothed while they were quite young. Sometimes the age difference between the betrothed was significant. Handy (1952, p. 272) reported the acceptance of pairings in which the female was hardly of walking age and the male was old enough to be her grandfather, as well as pairings in which tiny males were betrothed to elderly matrons. Such young individuals obviously did not have to restrain themselves as their libido matured, but it also is possible that mechanisms, such as the Westermarck effect 8 , dampened eroticism if the individual was betrothed at a very young age.
Sexual Behavior in Pre Contact Hawaii: A Sexological Ethnography
Once paired with a chief, the chiefess, like the commoners she ruled over, could have as many lovers or additional permanent sexual partners as she desired. One missionary, Reverend Thurston, described a secondary wife of Kalaniopuu, Ruling Chief of the Island of Hawai'i in Cook's time. By her own admission, she had not fewer than 40 sexual partners and usually several concurrently. King Kamehameha had 21 known <<wives>>. Regarding age disparity, it was noted: <<When he was an old man well on in years ... he took two young chiefesses to warm Kamehameha's old age>> .
Peripubertal females, in many cultures of Oceania, were noted to often be publicly sexually active with adults. Cook (1773, Vol. 1, p. 128) reported copulation in public in Hawai'i between an adult male and a female estimated to be 11 or 12 <<without the least sense of it being indecent or improper.>> The disapproval implicit in Cook's report probably was caused as much by the public nature of the activity as by the age-related aspects. In Tahiti, one missionary noted in his diary that the High Priest Manimani, <c.. though nearly blind with age, is as libidinous now as when thirty years younger; …[he] has frequently upwards of a dozen females with him, some of them apparently not above twelve or thirteen years of age>> (cited in Danielsson, 1986, P. 57). Gauguin credited the inspiration for his famous painting <<Manao tupapau>> (<<The Specter Watches Over Her>>), completed in 1892, to his 13- year-old Tahitian <<wife>> Teha' amana.
Suggs (1966, pp. 51-53) cited many cases of full heterosexual intercourse in public between adults and prepubertal individuals in Polynesia. The crews of the visiting ships showed no compunction against the activities, and the natives assisted in the efforts. Cunnilingus with young females was recorded without accompanying remarks that this kind of behavior was unusual or disapproved of for the participants. Occasions were recorded of elders assisting youngsters in having sex with other elders. Among the Marquesas Islanders in particular, Suggs (1966, p. 119) reported, extramarital relations were frequent and often involved older males with young virginal females and older females with young virginal males.
Until fairly recently, the birth of an infant to an unmarried female in Hawai'i, as elsewhere in Polynesia, was not a problem for her or society. Her fertility was proven, and the infant was wanted and taken care of by the extended 'ohana (family). illegitimacy, in the Western sense, is inapplicable in regard to traditional Hawai'i
While betrothals occurred, occasionally arranged by parents of chiefs or by
other prominent persons, such formalized relationships were uncommon
(Kamakau, 1964, pp. 25-26). Specific words for <<husband> and <<wife>> did not exist; he was simply called kane (man) and she wahine (woman).
Individuals stayed together or not by choice rather than by commitment or obligation. One member of a pair could be monogamous while the other was polygamous. While public announcements of intentions to stay together among all 'i were noteworthy and often elaborate affairs, they were uncommon. David Malo, an advisor to King Kalakaua III and an Hawai' ian convert to Christianity, wrote in 1839: <<Of the people about court there were few who lived in marriage. The number of those who had no legitimate relations with women was greatly in the majority. Sodomy and other unnatural vices in which men were the correspondents, fornication and hired prostitution were practiced about court>>.
A <<pairing>> ceremony among commoners was even more rare. Couples that wanted to sleep and live togetherjust did so. Typically, no contract was expressed openly, although there probably was a vague set of expectations that linked the couple. Sahlins (1985, p.23) expressed the situation thus: <<For the people as for the chiefs, the effect of sex was society: a shifting set of liaisons that gradually became sorted out and weighted down by the practical considerations attached to them.>>
Monogamy, polygyny, and polyandry coexisted among all 'i and among commoners. Often, polygamy involved siblings (Morgan, 1964, p. 361). 10 Taking another sexual partner usually was acceptable if the first mate knew about the relationship and sanctioned it. Secret relationships were not approved of, however, although the discovery of such a relationship usually was disruptive only temporarily. Such sexual license greatly disturbed the early Christian missionaries. The <<crimes>> most commonly reported by the haole (foreigner, now refers to Caucasians) to occur among the Hawai'ians, recorded as being 4-5 times more common than theft or property crimes, were fornication and adultery (Sahlins, 1985, p. 24); these terms, of course, had no meaning to the Hawai'ians. <<Adultery>> came to be defined by the Hawai'ians as <<sexual activity with a nonregular partner within the hale. If the coitus occurred outside
__________
Terms such as <sodomy,>> <fomication.>> and <adultery>> were introduced pejoratively by the missionaries and are used pejoratively in these quotations. Among traditional Hawai'ians, however, such nuances were absent.
In Hawai'ian tradition, lineage rights were transmitted by females, not by males. Thus, a male could have several wives, and each wife maintained her individual inheritance. The inheritance of prime importance was a genealogy that linked one to the ali'i class and royalty. Material wealth was not <owneth as the concept exists in the West. Private property was not a feature of traditional Hawai'ian life. (The chief owned everything hut couldn't take your genealogy that could grant status and privilege.) the house in private, it was not a problem to the Hawai'ian, since it did not disrupt the status quo. Sexual exclusivity was not associated with <<marriage.>> Such an idea would have been unusual to Polynesian society.
Gregersen (1982, p. 250) reported monogamy in only 30 of 127 Pacific island cultures studied, the rest of the cultures being polygamous. Worldwide, Ford and Beach (1951, P. 108) found multiple mateships permitted in 84% of the 185 societies in their Human Area Files sample.
Relationships were dissolved at the desire of one or both partners. Sex with others was not seen as a cause for separation. Jealousy was considered unwarranted. Handy and Pukui (1958, pp. 57-58) wrote: K.. . where love of one man by two women were involved [and vice versa], it was considered bad manners (maika'i 'ole, <<not good>>) for apunalua (lover) to hold spite or malice in their hearts towards each other. The very existence of the formal [punalua] relationship. . . worked against ill feeling...
If one left a first mate for a second, the relationship to the first was not necessarily broken, Certainly, the ties were kept to any children that came from the union (Johnson, 1983), and often, the sexual relationship between old partners continued. 11 In this context, the Western concentration on things <<premarital,>> <<marital,>> and <<post marital>> did not have comparable meaning to traditional Hawai'ians. In fact, it is only within the last 50 years or so that a majority of native Hawai'ians have looked to the state licensing board to legitimize their marriages. Cohabitation without legal marriage was and is so frequent that, to encourage formal marriage, Hawai'i state law does not recognize <<common-law>> marriages.
Considering that ali'i had much mana, commoner parents of a young female often wanted her to be impregnated by an au 'i male or to be taken as his mistress. The privilege of jus primae noctis for chiefs was often observed and was viewed with favor by a young female's parents. If she were lucky, she might conceive his offspring and be allowed to keep it. This wish for high-mona descendants and relatives prompted Hawai'ian families to send their daughters and wives to sleep with crewmen of early visiting ships. They thought the strange newcomers-with their large vessels and weapons that could kill immediately and at a distance--were indeed gods.
__________
Having one or many sexual partners had no necessary correlation with the love of one's primary partner. Intense love was known, and the loss of a dear one was not just lamented but might be evidenced by self-inflicted pain and mutilation (e.g., Whitman, 1979, p. 26) in the form of self- burning by fire, breaking of teeth, or even blinding. One might take bones or body pasts of a dead lover to sleep with or as keepsakes.
Promiscuity as a concept was not related to the number of sexual partners but rather to an improper concern with the lineage of potential offspring. Invitations to or direct acceptance of sex from the right strangers. on the part of males and females, were seen by the Hawai'iaflS as good fun, good politics, good <<inana> and cross- fertilization, or just good socialization. For a male or a female to be <<propositioned> was considered a compliment, not an insult.
To have sex at the request of another was seen more as being passion than compassion. To want sex with another was seen as being natural. As one respondent put it: <Women didn't say no because it would have been considered <<bad form.>> a rudeness. Also, they took the invitation as a compliment and often also wanted the sex themselves. .
Prostitution, as it now would be defined, was nonexistent in pre-Western contact Hawai'i, because sexual partners were readily available for mutual enjoyment. After Western contact occurred, the females continued to want sex openly, now with the mona-loaded sailors and traders. These males advocated bartering for sex, and with no religious or social restrictions against prostitution, the natives had no hesitancy about profiting from the newcomers' desires.
yeah so i had been playing on monster.com looking at jobs... Mostly jobs in quantitative analsys, trading desk, entry level portfolio managment type of stuff.. Of course the vast majority of those jobs are located in NY or Chicago.. i don't know... And of course i wound up playing with other distractions this very cool site about home metal foundries and other fun stuff... and this very funny video the kids would get a little kick out of...
i was just doing my sit-ups listening to tunes when i had this uncontrol-able urge to write you - get some of all of this down on paper.. woulda been a shorter email if it was not for the music that three dimensional word thing i wrote to you about back in early november, November....
I wanna kiss you in Paris
I wanna hold your hand in Rome
I wanna run naked in a rainstorm
Make love in a train cross-country
You put this in me
So now what, so now what?
Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love
I want to know you
Not like that
I don't wanna be your mother
I don't wanna be your sister either
I just wanna be your lover
I wanna be your baby
Kiss me, that's right, kiss me
Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love
Yearning, burning
For you to justify my love
What are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do?
Talk to me -- tell me your dreams
Am I in them?
Tell me your fears
Are you scared?
Tell me your stories
I'm not afraid of who you are
We can fly!
Poor is the man
Whose pleasures depend
On the permission of another
Love me, that's right, love me
I wanna be your baby
Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love
I'm open and ready
For you to justify my love
To justify my love
Wanting, to justify
Waiting, to justify my love
Praying, to justify
To justify my love
I'm open, to justify my love ~Lenny Kravitts Madona Delerium
I want to know you..Not like that
I don't wanna be your mother
I don't wanna be your sister either
I just wanna be your lover..I wanna be your baby just that most inner secret special place is that too much to ask or want for... 'want for'.. i like that. all i want is your everything.. But yes blessed to accept whatever it is you are willing to give away for free... cause all of this that is me is all i have to offer you in return.. for free..Poor is the man whose pleasure depend On the permission of another Love me, that's right, love me...
I was afraid youd hit me if Id spoken up.
I was afraid of your physical strength.
I was afraid youd hit below the belt.
I was afraid of your sucker punch.
I was afraid of your reducing me,
I was afraid of your alcohol breath.
I was afraid of your complete disregard for me.
I was afraid of your temper,
I was afraid of handles being flown off.
I was afraid of holes being punched into walls.
I was afraid of your tes-tos-ter-one.
I have as much rage as you have.
I have as much pain as you do.
Ive lived as much hell as you have.
And Ive kept mine bubbling under for you.
You were my best friend
You were my lover.
You were my mentor.
You were my brother.
You were my partner.
You were my teacher.
You were my very own sympathetic character.
I was afraid of verbal daggers.
I was afraid of the calm before the..... STORM.
I was afraid of for my own bones.
I was afraid of your seduction.
I was afraid of your coercion.
I was afraid of your rejection.
I was afraid of your intimidation.
I was afraid of your pun-ish-ment.
I was afraid of your icy silences.
I was afraid of your volume.
I was afraid of your man-i-pu-la-tion.
I was afraid of your explosions.
I have as much rage as you have.
I have as much pain as you do.
Ive lived as much hell as you have.
And Ive kept mine bubbling under for you.
(chorus - chorus)
You were my keeper.
You were my anchor.
You were my family.
You were my savior.
And therein lay the issue.
And therein lay the problem. ~A Morissette
is not so much that i feel like i should live as a polynesian or that i expect that you should but that i am going to push and yes perhaps even purposefully hurt you a little bit here or maybe more like hope/push you into hurting yourself with a little mental excercise as a way of 'getting there' in the now.. it is one thing to "think about" and it is something else entirely to actively want/TRY to feel it.. And i want you to push me for the same... cause see is like the one dimensional word 'husband' or 'wife' or 'boyfriend' or 'lover' there is all that OTHER specific historical, personal culture of feelings, roles, ideas, thoughts concepts that make up our unique and yes VERY unique meaning of the word. If entire civilizations could have such wildly varied ideas of what is good, normal healthy sexual relationship the feelings within individual people are going to be even more complex and varied and this instance specific...
So here is your push.. go there - what do you feel and why. With time we have slowly been building a new shared vocabulary. You spoke of boundaries and alarm bells, you mentioned the main way of being told/shown/feeling special..i mean yeah ok 'time' is big one and there are many others but sex with just me is a MAIN one. A most basic reasonable tiniest of expectation... i am looking for the FEELING and the why for's.. what you think might be the reasons motivations behind.. is not something that is going to be scientific and percise and everything all outline form specifically spelled out numbered and listed.. nothing so written in stone, we are talking feelings impressions, maybe thoughts, memories ideas hopes fears very fuzzy intangible stuff... there is the rather sudden tears outbreak and words like "love me enough" (very powerful and important word choice) ... "to be safe" i think is the expression you used.. to where a condom you were infering. I am asking you to feel it in detail is - whatever, saturday morning and i left you at friday 7pm to go 'watch a movie' and of course fuck suck another all night long - say TT or ABK or who-ever however makes it most real and painful for you.. what is worse you are free all day this saturday morning with hours of time to wait and think and know we are playing happily together.. all day long we are smiling lovingly into each other eyes and all of that. There is the holding of hands and hair and organs whatever is the worse of it that you can imagine stay with it, she smells good and yet she is not you. Last night was bad, but you were tired from the week and a few cocktails easy enough to pass out and turn off your mind but now you have all day to be alone and cut out ignored, unwanted, whatever it is - i promise you will still be whole on the other end of this experience. Don't shelter yourself from it. love to hate it if you must but love it for just a little while and make friends with as in.. become to really know become intimately familiar with the pain you are feeling the EXACT pain you are feeling and why this exact type of pain, what- why- how is it- your mind is having these feelings.. what does this all mean to you specifically... It is easy to say i am feeling this because of that thing out there outside of myself called joe, tom dick or harry did x y z to me but that is only on the surface seen from afar.. What is going on INSIDE and why. Most ussually most sane people will quickly recoil from the pain, the feeling the thought or whatever it is. That is the purpose of pain right, alarm bells stop do not pass go.. i want to push you to not recoil just yet.. stay with it for a while to see what is actually there. To not judge the feeling or action or plan the next step of evasion or avoidance or removal of the pain.. to just soak it up, breath it in - wow look at that- tell me the mental movies you see. The feelings you feel. Can really be big fun if you play with it. But then again i don't really expect you to have much fun with this.. i wish you could but i know you are not me...
Oh, life is bigger
It's bigger than you
And you are not me
The lengths that I will go to
The distance in your eyes
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up
That's me in the corner
That's me in the spotlight, I'm
Losing my religion
Trying to keep up with you
And I don't know if I can do it
Oh no, I've said too much
I haven't said enough
I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try...
But that was just a dream
That was just a dream ~REM
I want to know all about it. I want the whole story uncut and in detail from the inside out. Specifically and graphically is ok if you have to bash and hate me in the process if that is how it all goes down in your head is all just part of the conversation. A conversation that is still only just barely begining.
there is more here but is morning is already in full swing. I need to go for now...
until then, then.
wish i could see you this morning...
funny thing just addressing this to you reminded me of being in gainsville last time - what was that thanksgiving... looking through emails D saw how my sent box and inbox was overly brimming with AJ emails... even SHE knew/could tell who you were to me, right away... was obvious to her without even a discussion.
kisses~
To: AJ
Date: Feb 6, 2007 7:23 AM
Subject too much
hi love....
thanx for joining me for dinner... er 12:50am dinner.. of um RICE of course :-)
rice and egg and barbecue sauce
this is probably going to be another one of those sorta emails not designed to read in one sitting.
i mean maybe it WOULD have been (an email designed for one sitting) if i had not turned on my ipod music player and been assaulted reminded and re-invigorated with the power of three dimensional words... which reminds me ...
" i once had the rather naive idea that it would be sufficient - indeed entirely sufficient- to say each thing exactly once... Only gradually did i understand that saying a thing once is tantamount to saying it not at all.. it is indeed sufficient for people to hear the laws of thermodynamics once, and to understand that they're written down somewhere, should they ever be needed again, but there are other truths, of a different human order, that must be enunciated again and again and again and again - in the same words and in different words: again and again and again....
And when Jesus spoke in Galilee, there were those who asked: 'Didn't i hear him say these things in Capernaum or Jerusalem or Judaea or Gennesaret or Casesarea Phillippe?' of course they heard them in all these places. All the public statements attributed to Jesus in the gospels could be delivered in three hours or less, and if he didn't REPEAT himself everywhere he went, then he was silent during ninety-nine percent of his public life...." ~The Story of B by D.Quinn
You've heard this bit before... and once more i know it SEEMS like we could go on and on in an endless looping conversation about the same ideas, thoughts, feelings, rules, expectations, past, present and future on ad infinitum and that we are not 'getting anywhere' but amazingly truly - "where a problem is, so too is the answer".. Or perhaps even more specifically it is within the problem itself. Within the feeling of discontent itself. Within the very powerful deliberate full FEELING of the discontentment itself- the internal and external processing of it from within yourself and then back out of yourself toward the outside world or in this case person (me). By reaching in and becoming intimately aware of the seeds of discontent- the conscious eyes-open fully aware open unfettered examination, exploration of and specific articulation of the discontentment.... within this feeling, within the very words that you use to articulate the issue with - HERE hidden and wrapped in a long lasting protective outer shell are the seeds - the important little core nuggets of feelings, ideas, thoughts that are also the 'answer' the solution the remedy of the discontent.
There is nothing particularly magical about this process and for all of it's benefits, it is still FAR from expedient. It is not the always the BEST way and certainly not the fastest or often not even the most efficient way to handle issues, conflicts, incompatibilities or discontentments. Sure mutual compromise is easier or even the simple ignoring of issues or how about just the top-down power struggle type of plays that you once mentioned most often characterize all romantic relationships- yeah ok all of these approaches will 'work'... and i totally understand how/why important how something WORKS in the real world is important to someone such as yourself....
But all of these methods - even something as popular and yummy safe sounding as win-win compromises... they are still actually lose-lose compromises - as in yes i get what i want you and you get what you want but i give up a little (read: lose) and you give up a little (read: lose) or order to get there..Sure maybe it is a 'fair trade' even equitable.. but i am not striving for 'equity' or 'fairness' or even 'reasonable-ness'... these are all fine admirable things and really only the most BASIC thing that should be demanded of ALL relationships - even the most unimportant/trivial type of relationships.. In relationships such as yours and mine in your most intimate, romantic love relationships i pray that you always aiming for something MUCH higher than simply 'fair', or 'equitable' or 'reasonable' when face with important core conflicts, problems, issues or incompatibilities... I guess what i am trying to stress is this round-and-round, back-and-forth talking in circles stating and restating the obvious, the asking, exploring the "how comes" and "why's" and "why nots" it is not just an exercise in futility.. It is not just a method of win/lose looking for the cracks in the story to exploit or a delay the inevitable negotiate and re-negotiate into a stalemate lose/lose- it is not manipulation or salesmanship, it is not trickery or changing of minds persuasion.. It is that communication thing you mentioned.. it is that REAL, full-on, honest communication that couples do not do.. It is the UNDERSTANDING of minds.. Understand of your own thoughts feelings ideas and then allowing me to understand as well... It is me being able to explore understand my own feelings and then being able to express and have YOU understand them as well... It is a very simple basic yet complex thing... simple as a flower - and that's a complicated thing"
You cannot go against nature
Because when you do
Go against nature
It's part of nature too
Our little lives get complicated
It's a simple thing
Simple as a flower
And that's a complicated thing
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
AHHHH
My ( WHOLE ) world is your world
People like to hear their names
I'm no exception
Please call my name
Call my name
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
No new tale to tell
AHHHH
When you're down
It's a long way up
When you're up
It's a long way down
It's all the same thing
No new tale to tell
~Love and Rockets
See - the process itself is even part of the solution. The understanding and coming to know, and not just know-in-your-head-know, but FEEL know-in-your-heart-know that we are on the same page.. We want the same thing. That we are MUCH more alike than we are different that we are not really so separate at all - reminds me - cooking my rice tonight made me realize that i have NEVER met anyone else that keeps the cooking time up on the microwave the way you and i do.. i love that but ok let me stay focused here... When two people come to truly understand each other. The inside of each others hearts the true feelings behind all the words, roles, pain, rules, gladness, hopes, fears, dreams etc- -the 'problem' this temporal issue this constructed huge THING or incompatibility.. the problem really does simply solve itself spontaneously and effortlessly without any required sort of enforcement or other layer of motivation... We will want the same thing we will strive for the same thing... the ( duh? ) plain truth is if we are human and in a love relationship we already DO want the same thing. All roads lead to Rome - we just do not realize this yet. or ok maybe we realize it but we do not understand it in our hearts how can this be or as you say - talking out of two sides of your mouth -
Don't believe what you hear
Don't believe what you see
If you just close your eyes
You can feel the enemy
When I first met you girl
You had fire in your soul
What happened your face
Of melting in snow
Now it looks like this
And you can swallow
Or you can spit
You can throw it up
Or choke on it
And you can dream
So dream out loud
You know that your time is coming 'round
So don't let the bastards grind you down
No, nothing makes sense
Nothing seems to fit
I know you'd hit out
If you only knew who to hit
And I'd join the movement
If there was one I could believe in
Yeah I'd break bread and wine
If there was a church I could receive in
'cause I need it now
To take a cup
To fill it up
To drink it slow
I can't let you go
I must be an acrobat
To talk like this
And act like that
And you can dream
So dream out loud
And don't let the bastards grind you down
Oh, it hurts baby
(What are we going to do now it's all been said)
(No new ideas in the house and every book has been read)
And I must be an acrobat
To talk like this
And act like that
And you can dream
So dream out loud
And you can find
Your own way out
You can build
And I can will
And you can call
I can't wait until
You can stash
And you can seize
In dreams begin
Responsibilities
And I can love
And I can love
And I know that the tide is turning 'round
So don't let the bastards grind you down
~U2
"Anywhere in the world, East of West, you can walk up to a stranger and say, "let me show you how to be saved," and you'll be understood. You may not be believed or welcomed when you speak the words, but you will surely be understood. The fact that you'll be understood SHOULD astonish you, but it doesn't, because you've been prepared from childhood by a hundred thousand voices- a million voices - to understand these words yourself. You know instantly what i means to be "saved", and it doesn't matter in the least whether you believe in the salvation referred to. You know in addition, as a completely distinct matter, that being saved involves some method or other. The method might be a ritual- baptism, extreme unction, the sacrament of penance, the performance of ceremonial works, or anything at all. It might, on the other hand, be an inner action of repentance, love, faith or meditation. Again in addition, and again as a completely distinct matter, you know that the method has not been discovered, developed or tested in any scientific laboratory; either God has revealed it to someone or someone has discovered it in a supra normal state of consciousness. Although initially received by Divine means, the method is nonetheless transmittable by normal means which explains why it's possible for a perfectly ordinary individual to offer the method to others.
But all this barely scratches the surface of what is meant when someone says, "Let me show you how to be saved." A complex and profound worldview is implicit in such a statement. According to this worldview, the human condition is such that everyone is born in an unsaved state and remains unsaved until the requisite ritual or inner action is performed, and all who die in this state either lose their chance for eternal happiness with God or fail to escape the weary cycle of death and rebirth.
Because we have been schooled from birth to understand all this, we're not at all puzzled to hear someone say, "Let me show you how to be saved." Salvation is as plain and ordinary to us as sunrise or rainfall. But now try to imagine how these words would be received in a culture that had not notion that people were born in an unsaved state, that had not notion that people need to be saved. A statement like this, which seems plain and ordinary to us, would be completely meaningless and incomprehensible to them, in part and in whole. Not a word of it would make sense to them.
Imagine all the work you'd have to do to prepare the people of this culture for your statement. You'd have to persuade them that they (and indeed all humans) are born in a state in which they require salvation. You'd have to explain to them what being unsaved means- and what being saved means. You'd have to persuade them that achieving salvation is vitally important-indeed the most important thing in the world. You have to convince them that you have a method that assures success. You'd have to explain where the method came from and why it works. You'd have to assure them that they can master this method, and that it will work as well for them as it does for you....
if you can imagine the difficult you would encounter in this enterprise, you can imagine the difficulty i encounter every time i address an audience. It's seldom possible for me simply to open my mouth and say the things that are on my mind. Rather, I must begin by laying the groundwork for ideas that are obvious to me but fundamentally alien to my listeners...." ~The Story of B by D.Quinn
you can imagine the difficulty in explaining the judeo-christian cultural views, norms and 'reasonable' boundaries to someone of a Polunesian or Oceania culture
Perhaps the most publicized, and accordingly overrated, aspect of Polynesian culture is its sensuality: as in many other aspects of life, the Polynesians generally took a very direct, realistic, and quite physical approach to gratification of the senses. But there was no abnormal focus or concentration on any aspect of sensual gratification such as is seen in many other cultures where, for example, eating, drinking, or sex have become the object of great cultural elaboration. This lack of elaboration may be due in part to limitations imposed by the environment. The flora of Polynesia did not, for example, provide a very good basis for elaboration of cuisine, as the number of edible plants was rather restricted, and there was a dearth of spices. In general, however, this balanced approach to sensual gratification seems to be just another reflection of the Polynesian straightforward approach to the world. Polynesian culture, for example, is generally thought to have been characterized by extreme sexual promiscuity, but such is not the case. Definite restrictions were placed on sexual behavior, though the limits of acceptable behaviour were indeed much wider than in many other cultures of the world. Children were permitted freedom of sexual expression; from puberty on, sexual activity was strongly encouraged, limited only by incest restrictions (which were not stringent) and considerations of social prestige. Parents would become concerned (emphasis added) if daughters were not sought after for sexual favours, and premarital pregnancy only enhanced a girl's attractiveness. Public intercourse was engaged in during certain religious festivals and crisis rite ceremonies as a means to promote general fertility. There was, however, no pathological elaboration of sex for its own sake. Polynesian art, for example, is strikingly devoid of sexual content. There are occasional references made to sexual activity in native Polynesian oral literature, but many of these have to do with creative acts of the Polynesian gods, for the Polynesians saw the process of the creation of the universe as having taken place in a manner similar to human procreation. There is no corpus of Polynesian literature analogous to pornography.
Religious laws controlled eating more than they controlled sex.
The Western concept of marriage did not exist in Hawai'i , and even if a common definition of marriage is applied sexual genital interactions were socially accepted in many <<nonmarital>> and non-committed relations. The concepts of premarital and extramarital sexual activities were absent, and it was probably true of Hawai'i, as it was said to have been true of much of Polynesia, that <<there are no people in the world who indulge themselves more in their sensual appetites than these>> (Ellis, 1782, Vol. 2, p. 153).
Traditional Hawai'ian society was culturally complex. Sex was seen as being positive and pleasurable, and although many cultural precepts existed concerning nonsexual aspects of life, the attitude toward sex was comparatively open and permissive. Sexual needs and desires were seen as being as basic as the need to eat, and the young were instructed in matters of sex. Adults attended physically to the sexual development of the young, including the preparation of their genitals. These sexual interactions between adults and the young, from the society's perspective, were seen as benefiting the young individual rather than as gratifying the adult. The sexual desire of an adult for a nonadult, heterosexual or homosexual, was accepted, and the regular erotic preference by an adult for a young individual probably was viewed more as being unusual than as being intrinsically bad. As Sahlins put it, the Hawai'ian <<social system [was] constructed out of passion, structured out of sentiment.>> Even the basic Hawai ian creation story <<The Kumulipo,>> is highly sexual It starts with the mating of the male god Wakea and the female god Papa and, throughout, turns to many sexual encounters .
The Hawai'ian approach to sex and sex education seemed to be fruitful in many ways. Sexual dysfunctions such as impotence and inhibitions of desire or lack of orgasm among males or females, common enough in Western society today, reportedly were unknown or at least rare (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, pp. 84, 97). Sex was a salve and glue for the total society.
The absence of concern with sexually transmitted disease (this affliction arrived with the first sailors from Europe in 1778), the lack of concern with illegitimacy, a permissive attitude toward multiple sex partners, and a feeling of obligation to sexually instruct in deed as well as in theory, freed the tradiional Hawai'ians from most of contemporary Western society's great fears associated with sexual expression. To the Hawai'ians, sex was definitely not a subject or a set of behaviors to be avoided or reserved only for adults or committed partners nor were sexual activities restricted to certain time, place or occasion.
To know about sexual interactions between adults and the young in traditonal Hawai'i is most instructive, because these interactions illustrate the power that cultural tradition wields not only in contributing to the organization of behavior but also in shaping humans' self-reported attitudes toward behavior patterns.
__________
Until the age of 4-6, young males and females played together. Between 4 and 6, young males went to live in the hale nua, where, through observation, they learned sex roles and sex-related expectations from adult males. Unlike traditions that were present in some other parts of Oceania (see Schiefenhovel, 1990), there is no evidence that ritualized adult-male/adolescent-male sexual activities were practiced in traditional Hawai'i.
Similarly, young females learned from the older women, with whom they remained. They were taught to look forward to sex and appreciate its pleasures. Both sexes heard the sex-positive conversations, songs, and stories of their elders and learned accordingly. By the age of puberty sexual exploration with same-sex age mates was actively encouraged.
Sex training was direct and firsthand. Young individuals learned of coitus and sex play from instruction, direct observation, and practice. As they slept in the family house (hale noa), they observed their parents having coitus. <<Public privacy>> among the Mangaian Islanders, as it was described by Marshall (1971, p. 108), probably is similar to the <<privacy>> that was found in Hawai'i and elsewhere in Polynesia: <<[A Mangaian may copulate, at any age, in the single room of a hut that contains from five to fifteen family members of all ages — as have his ancestors before him. His daughter may receive and make love with each of her varied nightly suitors in the same room .... But under most conditions, all of this takes place without social notice: everyone seems to be looking in another direction.>>
__________
The young Hawai'ian also acquired sex education in day-by-day exposure to precepts, practices, and attitudes concerning sex. Traditionally, . . . childish curiosity about sex was satisfied, with neither guilt nor shame instilled>> (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, p. 249). With variations depending upon rank, region, and social circumstances, the young individual learned the lore of kapu, social restraints and preferences, and attitudes toward both sex for procreation or love and sex for fun and pleasure. Each kind of sex was appreciated for its own value
AGE AND PREPARATION FOR FIRST COITUS
Individuals of both sexes were expected to initiate and participate in coitus at puberty, although sexual activity, play, instruction, and so forth occurred much earlier. For instance, as part of exploratory play, the young investigated each other's genitals, and young males and females might masturbate each other heterosexually or homosexually. This activity occurred without adult disapproval, and it was considered to be an introduction to adulthood. Casual intercourse before adolescence was not an uncommon experience both for males and females
Ellis (1782, Vol. 2, p. 153) wrote of sexual expression in Oceania: <<The ladies are very lavish of their favors ... and some of their attachments seemed purely the effects of affection. They are initiated into this way of life at a very early period; we saw some, who could not be more than ten years old.>>
The time considered <<right>> to start coittis was not so much based on chronological age as on ability or maturity. A male doing adult work or holding adult responsibilities was considered to be <<old enough.>> A young male who could grow taro or catch many fish was considered mature. A female's first menses usually signaled she was ready for coitus if she had not already experienced it. Kamehameha the Great, who unified all the Hawai'ian Islands, took his first <<wife,>> Ka'ahu-manu, when she was 13 ; he probably was several years older than she.
As physical signs of maturity appeared. the young Hawai'ian received more formal sex education. Among commoners, this education was traditionally and usually the responsibility of the tütü wahine for the females and the tütü kane (<<grandfather>>) for the males. Suggs (1966) elaborated on the early sexual experiences of pubertal males with married females in their 30's and 40's in the Marquesas Islands, who <<take special pains to be pleasing and patient with them . . . a source of enjoyment for many Marquesan women>> (p. 61). For young females of the Marquesas Islands, the first coital experience reportedly is earlier than it is for young males before menarche —and occurs unplanned with an adult male.
Among ali'i, an experienced chiefess, usually a blood <<aunt,>> instructed and trained the young males. Similarly, young females were trained by their <<aunt,>> by another experienced woman, or by a tutu kane. The training concerned not only what to expect and what to do but also how to increase or maximize pleasure. Less formal but similar training was afforded to commoners. There was practice as well as theory. A young male was taught <<timing>> and how to please a female in order to help her attain orgasm. A young female was taught how to touch and caress a male and move her body to please them both. She was taught how to constrict and rhythmically contract her vaginal muscles. Several of the informants who were interviewed remember being so instructed. One adult female told of being instructed on how to get her vagina to <<wink.>>
These adult/nonadult sexual interactions were socially approved behaviors. Kamehameha the Great, again can be used as an example. Before he aligned himself with Ka' ahu-manu, he had an infant, while <<still a beardless youth,>> by Chiefess Kanekapoli, a wife of KalaniopuU (Judd, 1976, p. 71). The infant was welcome and was accepted without stigma, as was any pregnancy resulting from such unions (Handy and Pukui, 1958, p. 110). For adults not to have given such practical education would have been unthinkable - a dereliction of duty.
Most important for Hawai' ian society, the young learned of sexual humor. Among the Hawai'ians, sex was and remains a rich source of humor and enjoyment. In everyday conversation and in song and story, it was considered to be an <<art form>> to speak using sexual double entendres (kaona). One well- known folk song, still sung, uses the vowels as erotic expressions; their elongated sounds are highly sexual: aaaaaaa, eeeeeee, iiiiiii, ooooooo, uuuuuuu (Johnson, 1983). Erotic imagery was, and remains, common in speech, poetry, and songs: coconut tree bending over a female; a digging stick spreading a female's legs.
Suggs (1966, p. 39) considered the early manifestations of infantile and childhood sexual behavior, including sexual behavior with adults, to be among the most distinguishing features of Marquesan sexual behavior. Many of the activities he described, however, are similar to activities that were present in Hawai'i and elsewhere in Oceania. Oliver (1974, pp. 458-459), for example, reported on adultinonadult sexual behavior in Tahiti and quoted the missionary Orsmond from 1832: <<In all Tahitians as well as officers who come in ships there is a cry for little girls,>> and older females, when in a position to choose, preferred younger males. Marshall (1971, p. 126) described the routine early sexual encounters of young males and females in Mangaia as being with older, experienced males and females.
Neither physical appearance nor age mattered where coitus-for-genealogy was involved. The main concern in such instances was to preserve the highest level of mana and rank and to not dilute the family prestige (Kamakau, 1961, p. 208). if no offspring resulted, the sexual behavior itself was considered to be inconsequential.
The word for orgasm, le 'a, also means <<fun>> and <<joy>> (Pukui, Haertig, and Lee, 1972, p. 83), an appropriate term in the Hawai'ian language because the object of sexual interactions was mutual happiness and pleasure. There were no restrictions regarding any positions for intercourse. The appellation probably is undeserved, but the posture in which the male squats between the supine female's legs has been called the <<Oceanic position>> since its description by Malinowski
Sexual positions rarely are mentioned in ethnographies of Hawai'i, while other potentially curious or <<uncouth>> matters are. For example, oral, anal, masturbatory, and other kinds of sexual behavior were documented practices. Types of homosexual behavior were accepted and, reportedly, were unstigmatized; many of the royalty were known for their ambisexual activities
According to the reports of Westerners. extensive foreplay was not a standard part of coitus. Many reports and stories tell of an adult male and an adult female meeting on a trail, in the bush, or on a secluded beach and engaging in coitus immediately, with little conversation and few preliminaries. This kind of behavior also has been reported as having been the norm elsewhere in Oceania, e.g.. among Mangaian Islanders (Marshall. 1971, pp. 118-121) and Marquesas Islanders (Suggs, 1966, p. 98). Note-worthy in regard to such behavior is that orgasm for both the female and the male was not reported to be a problem despite the briefness of the encounter. Both males and females reportedly climaxed easily and frequently in traditional societies of Oceania.
It is possible that some of the reports of seemingly promiscuous and nonrelational sex that occurred in Oceania might reflect sampling and Western-oriented biases. This possibility has to be considered, because such interactions are not consistent with contemporary. versions of traditional songs, which speak of erotic and sensual courtship and foreplay.
VIRGINITY, PROMISCUITY, AND MONOGAMY
Aside from restrictions of class and family, there were few sex kapu for common people. Masturbation, sex between uncommitted individuals, paired individuals having lovers, liaisons, polyandry, polygyny, homosexual patterns of behavior, and such were all accepted practices . Sex was considered to be good and healthy for all, young and old included.
Virginity was considered to be a virtue only for female chiefs where genealogy was crucial. With this point in mind, ali'i —particularly the first-born of either sex, with special status rights— often were betrothed while they were quite young. Sometimes the age difference between the betrothed was significant. Handy (1952, p. 272) reported the acceptance of pairings in which the female was hardly of walking age and the male was old enough to be her grandfather, as well as pairings in which tiny males were betrothed to elderly matrons. Such young individuals obviously did not have to restrain themselves as their libido matured, but it also is possible that mechanisms, such as the Westermarck effect 8 , dampened eroticism if the individual was betrothed at a very young age.
Sexual Behavior in Pre Contact Hawaii: A Sexological Ethnography
Once paired with a chief, the chiefess, like the commoners she ruled over, could have as many lovers or additional permanent sexual partners as she desired. One missionary, Reverend Thurston, described a secondary wife of Kalaniopuu, Ruling Chief of the Island of Hawai'i in Cook's time. By her own admission, she had not fewer than 40 sexual partners and usually several concurrently. King Kamehameha had 21 known <<wives>>. Regarding age disparity, it was noted: <<When he was an old man well on in years ... he took two young chiefesses to warm Kamehameha's old age>> .
Peripubertal females, in many cultures of Oceania, were noted to often be publicly sexually active with adults. Cook (1773, Vol. 1, p. 128) reported copulation in public in Hawai'i between an adult male and a female estimated to be 11 or 12 <<without the least sense of it being indecent or improper.>> The disapproval implicit in Cook's report probably was caused as much by the public nature of the activity as by the age-related aspects. In Tahiti, one missionary noted in his diary that the High Priest Manimani, <c.. though nearly blind with age, is as libidinous now as when thirty years younger; …[he] has frequently upwards of a dozen females with him, some of them apparently not above twelve or thirteen years of age>> (cited in Danielsson, 1986, P. 57). Gauguin credited the inspiration for his famous painting <<Manao tupapau>> (<<The Specter Watches Over Her>>), completed in 1892, to his 13- year-old Tahitian <<wife>> Teha' amana.
Suggs (1966, pp. 51-53) cited many cases of full heterosexual intercourse in public between adults and prepubertal individuals in Polynesia. The crews of the visiting ships showed no compunction against the activities, and the natives assisted in the efforts. Cunnilingus with young females was recorded without accompanying remarks that this kind of behavior was unusual or disapproved of for the participants. Occasions were recorded of elders assisting youngsters in having sex with other elders. Among the Marquesas Islanders in particular, Suggs (1966, p. 119) reported, extramarital relations were frequent and often involved older males with young virginal females and older females with young virginal males.
Until fairly recently, the birth of an infant to an unmarried female in Hawai'i, as elsewhere in Polynesia, was not a problem for her or society. Her fertility was proven, and the infant was wanted and taken care of by the extended 'ohana (family). illegitimacy, in the Western sense, is inapplicable in regard to traditional Hawai'i
While betrothals occurred, occasionally arranged by parents of chiefs or by
other prominent persons, such formalized relationships were uncommon
(Kamakau, 1964, pp. 25-26). Specific words for <<husband> and <<wife>> did not exist; he was simply called kane (man) and she wahine (woman).
Individuals stayed together or not by choice rather than by commitment or obligation. One member of a pair could be monogamous while the other was polygamous. While public announcements of intentions to stay together among all 'i were noteworthy and often elaborate affairs, they were uncommon. David Malo, an advisor to King Kalakaua III and an Hawai' ian convert to Christianity, wrote in 1839: <<Of the people about court there were few who lived in marriage. The number of those who had no legitimate relations with women was greatly in the majority. Sodomy and other unnatural vices in which men were the correspondents, fornication and hired prostitution were practiced about court>>.
A <<pairing>> ceremony among commoners was even more rare. Couples that wanted to sleep and live togetherjust did so. Typically, no contract was expressed openly, although there probably was a vague set of expectations that linked the couple. Sahlins (1985, p.23) expressed the situation thus: <<For the people as for the chiefs, the effect of sex was society: a shifting set of liaisons that gradually became sorted out and weighted down by the practical considerations attached to them.>>
Monogamy, polygyny, and polyandry coexisted among all 'i and among commoners. Often, polygamy involved siblings (Morgan, 1964, p. 361). 10 Taking another sexual partner usually was acceptable if the first mate knew about the relationship and sanctioned it. Secret relationships were not approved of, however, although the discovery of such a relationship usually was disruptive only temporarily. Such sexual license greatly disturbed the early Christian missionaries. The <<crimes>> most commonly reported by the haole (foreigner, now refers to Caucasians) to occur among the Hawai'ians, recorded as being 4-5 times more common than theft or property crimes, were fornication and adultery (Sahlins, 1985, p. 24); these terms, of course, had no meaning to the Hawai'ians. <<Adultery>> came to be defined by the Hawai'ians as <<sexual activity with a nonregular partner within the hale. If the coitus occurred outside
__________
Terms such as <sodomy,>> <fomication.>> and <adultery>> were introduced pejoratively by the missionaries and are used pejoratively in these quotations. Among traditional Hawai'ians, however, such nuances were absent.
In Hawai'ian tradition, lineage rights were transmitted by females, not by males. Thus, a male could have several wives, and each wife maintained her individual inheritance. The inheritance of prime importance was a genealogy that linked one to the ali'i class and royalty. Material wealth was not <owneth as the concept exists in the West. Private property was not a feature of traditional Hawai'ian life. (The chief owned everything hut couldn't take your genealogy that could grant status and privilege.) the house in private, it was not a problem to the Hawai'ian, since it did not disrupt the status quo. Sexual exclusivity was not associated with <<marriage.>> Such an idea would have been unusual to Polynesian society.
Gregersen (1982, p. 250) reported monogamy in only 30 of 127 Pacific island cultures studied, the rest of the cultures being polygamous. Worldwide, Ford and Beach (1951, P. 108) found multiple mateships permitted in 84% of the 185 societies in their Human Area Files sample.
Relationships were dissolved at the desire of one or both partners. Sex with others was not seen as a cause for separation. Jealousy was considered unwarranted. Handy and Pukui (1958, pp. 57-58) wrote: K.. . where love of one man by two women were involved [and vice versa], it was considered bad manners (maika'i 'ole, <<not good>>) for apunalua (lover) to hold spite or malice in their hearts towards each other. The very existence of the formal [punalua] relationship. . . worked against ill feeling...
If one left a first mate for a second, the relationship to the first was not necessarily broken, Certainly, the ties were kept to any children that came from the union (Johnson, 1983), and often, the sexual relationship between old partners continued. 11 In this context, the Western concentration on things <<premarital,>> <<marital,>> and <<post marital>> did not have comparable meaning to traditional Hawai'ians. In fact, it is only within the last 50 years or so that a majority of native Hawai'ians have looked to the state licensing board to legitimize their marriages. Cohabitation without legal marriage was and is so frequent that, to encourage formal marriage, Hawai'i state law does not recognize <<common-law>> marriages.
Considering that ali'i had much mana, commoner parents of a young female often wanted her to be impregnated by an au 'i male or to be taken as his mistress. The privilege of jus primae noctis for chiefs was often observed and was viewed with favor by a young female's parents. If she were lucky, she might conceive his offspring and be allowed to keep it. This wish for high-mona descendants and relatives prompted Hawai'ian families to send their daughters and wives to sleep with crewmen of early visiting ships. They thought the strange newcomers-with their large vessels and weapons that could kill immediately and at a distance--were indeed gods.
__________
Having one or many sexual partners had no necessary correlation with the love of one's primary partner. Intense love was known, and the loss of a dear one was not just lamented but might be evidenced by self-inflicted pain and mutilation (e.g., Whitman, 1979, p. 26) in the form of self- burning by fire, breaking of teeth, or even blinding. One might take bones or body pasts of a dead lover to sleep with or as keepsakes.
Promiscuity as a concept was not related to the number of sexual partners but rather to an improper concern with the lineage of potential offspring. Invitations to or direct acceptance of sex from the right strangers. on the part of males and females, were seen by the Hawai'iaflS as good fun, good politics, good <<inana> and cross- fertilization, or just good socialization. For a male or a female to be <<propositioned> was considered a compliment, not an insult.
To have sex at the request of another was seen more as being passion than compassion. To want sex with another was seen as being natural. As one respondent put it: <Women didn't say no because it would have been considered <<bad form.>> a rudeness. Also, they took the invitation as a compliment and often also wanted the sex themselves. .
Prostitution, as it now would be defined, was nonexistent in pre-Western contact Hawai'i, because sexual partners were readily available for mutual enjoyment. After Western contact occurred, the females continued to want sex openly, now with the mona-loaded sailors and traders. These males advocated bartering for sex, and with no religious or social restrictions against prostitution, the natives had no hesitancy about profiting from the newcomers' desires.
yeah so i had been playing on monster.com looking at jobs... Mostly jobs in quantitative analsys, trading desk, entry level portfolio managment type of stuff.. Of course the vast majority of those jobs are located in NY or Chicago.. i don't know... And of course i wound up playing with other distractions this very cool site about home metal foundries and other fun stuff... and this very funny video the kids would get a little kick out of...
i was just doing my sit-ups listening to tunes when i had this uncontrol-able urge to write you - get some of all of this down on paper.. woulda been a shorter email if it was not for the music that three dimensional word thing i wrote to you about back in early november, November....
So many things.
Words to share with you.
Words.
I have written you before about the impact of words.. There is so much in a word.
Words the things we.. the humans created to try and wrap around our thoughts.
Thoughts these things.. These ideas that bounce around our heads.
Words- The one dimensional reflection of thoughts.. The most concise and exacting.
Poetry – The two dimensional reflection of thoughts.. less concise, more emotional, impact felt as much as heard and understood.
Music – The three dimensional reflection of thoughts.. Completely non-specific, feeling itself transmitted. Even without words music is heard, FELT and understood.
Space itself sings with music.. we call it static, uncomprehensionable frequencies that pass through our very bodies un sensed by our own ears.. But still heard just the same. Just ask anyone who has ever been outside on a clear night with no clouds.. No light pollution. Ask them. ANYONE.- ask them what felt.. what they understood.. What they must have heard passing through them even if not in their ears.
So what is in a word?.. A one dimensional reflection of a thought.. A word like – Discipline.
If you ever want to really understand something. Really get your teeth into anything really. Start simple.. Start with what you already know.. Review it. Focus on it. And begin to build on it to find deeper meaning, deeper understand.. You can start with something as base as the word itself…
According to the American Heritage Dictionary the noun Discipline. The THING discipline has several specific definitions:
1.Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement.
2. Controlled behavior resulting from disciplinary training; self-control.
3. a. Control obtained by enforcing compliance or order.
b. A systematic method to obtain obedience: a military discipline.
c. A state of order based on submission to rules and authority: a teacher who demanded discipline in the classroom.
4. A set of rules or methods, as those regulating the practice of a church or monastic order.
"So what" you might say on first reading.. There are a bunch of 'definitions' of the word.. I already knew that. Of course you did but what is the theme of the word.. What is the reoccurring theme, rhythm, feel of various definitions? What is the poetry of the thought Discipline?.. What is the second dimension of concept, thought, idea of Discipline ?
1. Training esp. for morals or mental ( internal ) improvement.
2. INTERNAL (self)- Control
3. Enforced compliance – Submission to Authority
4. Rules for church/monks again MORALS
What are these concepts.. How do these concepts make you feel? Remember you feel poetry as much as hear and understand it. How does CONTROL / MORALS / INTERNAL SELF / SUBMISSION make you feel? Why do you feel that way? Do you like that feeling?? .. This really gives you no new understanding.. This really only tells you where you are now. You already knew all this. Maybe you were not consciously aware of it but it was there on some sort of unconscious level.
You can go deeper still into the one dimensional concise word to get more of the true poetry of the word.. The true origin of the word.. The Etymology of the word.. The latin root of the word.. Again back to American Heritage and we see that the word Discipline comes from the latin word disciplna, from discipulus… OR as we would say today – DISCIPLE…
Pretty cool eh?? Now you probably would not have thought that the noun Discipline with all that control/training stuff had anything to do with or had its origins in the noun Disciple- Peter, Paul, Mathew, Mark, Thomas, John and all that stuff.. Of course it does seem logical now after the fact.. Cause there was that whole moral theme running through the definition of Discipline..
So let's look deeper into the root word of Discipline – Disciple.. Back to the Dictionary
dis·ci·ple – Noun – A person
1a. One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.
b. An active adherent, as of a movement or philosophy.
2. One of the original followers of Jesus – Read GOD
3. A member of the Disciples of Christ. – Again read GOD
NOW we are really getting somewhere. Skipping past how this obvious theme makes you feel and why do you suppose that is?.., More importantly now is that Discipline is CONTROL / MORALS / INTERNAL SELF/ SUBMISSION - But where is the basis of this control? This inner self?.. These morals and submission?
Are you seeing it? Is the light bulb starting to glow yet?.. To be disciplined is to be internally-centered. It is to be a disciple to this inner center.. To be disciplined is to be a disciple of this inner center. To be an ACTIVE adherent of GOD.
Pretty heady stuff I know.. Scary things is this word stuff.. These concise specific one dimensional words can go deeper still. We can even go before Latin to what the dictionary calls the Indo-European – read India / European – read Tigris/Euphrates Root.
The Indo-European Root of Discipline and Disciple is dek .
The root dek according to the same American Heritage Dictionary means specifically.
To take, accept.
The picture should be fairly clear now. The thought should begin to have wings.. have mass. Can you see the poetry?.. The theme and rhythm of What the human thought / concept / idea of discipline is.
DisciplineIt is training.. (co notates practice)
It is internal.. ( based on something higher than self )
It is control. ( based on this higher self )
It is submission ( to the authority of that higher self – your god )
It is to be an active adherent of that god – A DISCIPLE
A teacher to others of this god – Actions speak loudest
It is to take and accept from this God what you have been given.
No doubts, no regrets, no other options are open to you. It is simply the way it is.
It is take, accept, follow, teach, submit to, enforce your actions thoughts words deeps to the control of – God. Allah'u akbar
To have discipline is to have God. There is no other way. This is not my idea or opinion of what discipline is or should be or how it may be best discovered or practiced with.
It is simply the way it is. It is the very meaning of the word itself.
Discipline = God as clearly as Life = Death.
They require each other they are a part of one another. They function as one so that it can become indiscernible which is the former or the latter.
Pretty bizarre eh?
All from a word.. A one dimensional idea.
Could you make a poem of discipline??
Could you make musical score of discipline?
There is a reason the renaissance man learned more than physics, mathematics, literature and history.. He learned the arts of poetry and music. They all speak of the same idea. Different reflects of the same idea.
Discipline would be a single note. Over and over again ad infinitum.. It would be a single clear note or a series of closely cropped notes. Regardless of the chaos that might swell and surround the melody through the piece that single note or series of notes would drone on throughout.. Over and over again..
Can you hear it?
I have always contented that everyone is disciplined just as everyone has/is god. The question becomes what/who is that god. What is the level of communication/communion with that god.. That is the level of discipline you will find.
I wanna kiss you in Paris
I wanna hold your hand in Rome
I wanna run naked in a rainstorm
Make love in a train cross-country
You put this in me
So now what, so now what?
Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love
I want to know you
Not like that
I don't wanna be your mother
I don't wanna be your sister either
I just wanna be your lover
I wanna be your baby
Kiss me, that's right, kiss me
Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love
Yearning, burning
For you to justify my love
What are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do?
Talk to me -- tell me your dreams
Am I in them?
Tell me your fears
Are you scared?
Tell me your stories
I'm not afraid of who you are
We can fly!
Poor is the man
Whose pleasures depend
On the permission of another
Love me, that's right, love me
I wanna be your baby
Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love
I'm open and ready
For you to justify my love
To justify my love
Wanting, to justify
Waiting, to justify my love
Praying, to justify
To justify my love
I'm open, to justify my love ~Lenny Kravitts Madona Delerium
I want to know you..Not like that
I don't wanna be your mother
I don't wanna be your sister either
I just wanna be your lover..I wanna be your baby just that most inner secret special place is that too much to ask or want for... 'want for'.. i like that. all i want is your everything.. But yes blessed to accept whatever it is you are willing to give away for free... cause all of this that is me is all i have to offer you in return.. for free..Poor is the man whose pleasure depend On the permission of another Love me, that's right, love me...
I was afraid youd hit me if Id spoken up.
I was afraid of your physical strength.
I was afraid youd hit below the belt.
I was afraid of your sucker punch.
I was afraid of your reducing me,
I was afraid of your alcohol breath.
I was afraid of your complete disregard for me.
I was afraid of your temper,
I was afraid of handles being flown off.
I was afraid of holes being punched into walls.
I was afraid of your tes-tos-ter-one.
I have as much rage as you have.
I have as much pain as you do.
Ive lived as much hell as you have.
And Ive kept mine bubbling under for you.
You were my best friend
You were my lover.
You were my mentor.
You were my brother.
You were my partner.
You were my teacher.
You were my very own sympathetic character.
I was afraid of verbal daggers.
I was afraid of the calm before the..... STORM.
I was afraid of for my own bones.
I was afraid of your seduction.
I was afraid of your coercion.
I was afraid of your rejection.
I was afraid of your intimidation.
I was afraid of your pun-ish-ment.
I was afraid of your icy silences.
I was afraid of your volume.
I was afraid of your man-i-pu-la-tion.
I was afraid of your explosions.
I have as much rage as you have.
I have as much pain as you do.
Ive lived as much hell as you have.
And Ive kept mine bubbling under for you.
(chorus - chorus)
You were my keeper.
You were my anchor.
You were my family.
You were my savior.
And therein lay the issue.
And therein lay the problem. ~A Morissette
is not so much that i feel like i should live as a polynesian or that i expect that you should but that i am going to push and yes perhaps even purposefully hurt you a little bit here or maybe more like hope/push you into hurting yourself with a little mental excercise as a way of 'getting there' in the now.. it is one thing to "think about" and it is something else entirely to actively want/TRY to feel it.. And i want you to push me for the same... cause see is like the one dimensional word 'husband' or 'wife' or 'boyfriend' or 'lover' there is all that OTHER specific historical, personal culture of feelings, roles, ideas, thoughts concepts that make up our unique and yes VERY unique meaning of the word. If entire civilizations could have such wildly varied ideas of what is good, normal healthy sexual relationship the feelings within individual people are going to be even more complex and varied and this instance specific...
So here is your push.. go there - what do you feel and why. With time we have slowly been building a new shared vocabulary. You spoke of boundaries and alarm bells, you mentioned the main way of being told/shown/feeling special..i mean yeah ok 'time' is big one and there are many others but sex with just me is a MAIN one. A most basic reasonable tiniest of expectation... i am looking for the FEELING and the why for's.. what you think might be the reasons motivations behind.. is not something that is going to be scientific and percise and everything all outline form specifically spelled out numbered and listed.. nothing so written in stone, we are talking feelings impressions, maybe thoughts, memories ideas hopes fears very fuzzy intangible stuff... there is the rather sudden tears outbreak and words like "love me enough" (very powerful and important word choice) ... "to be safe" i think is the expression you used.. to where a condom you were infering. I am asking you to feel it in detail is - whatever, saturday morning and i left you at friday 7pm to go 'watch a movie' and of course fuck suck another all night long - say TT or ABK or who-ever however makes it most real and painful for you.. what is worse you are free all day this saturday morning with hours of time to wait and think and know we are playing happily together.. all day long we are smiling lovingly into each other eyes and all of that. There is the holding of hands and hair and organs whatever is the worse of it that you can imagine stay with it, she smells good and yet she is not you. Last night was bad, but you were tired from the week and a few cocktails easy enough to pass out and turn off your mind but now you have all day to be alone and cut out ignored, unwanted, whatever it is - i promise you will still be whole on the other end of this experience. Don't shelter yourself from it. love to hate it if you must but love it for just a little while and make friends with as in.. become to really know become intimately familiar with the pain you are feeling the EXACT pain you are feeling and why this exact type of pain, what- why- how is it- your mind is having these feelings.. what does this all mean to you specifically... It is easy to say i am feeling this because of that thing out there outside of myself called joe, tom dick or harry did x y z to me but that is only on the surface seen from afar.. What is going on INSIDE and why. Most ussually most sane people will quickly recoil from the pain, the feeling the thought or whatever it is. That is the purpose of pain right, alarm bells stop do not pass go.. i want to push you to not recoil just yet.. stay with it for a while to see what is actually there. To not judge the feeling or action or plan the next step of evasion or avoidance or removal of the pain.. to just soak it up, breath it in - wow look at that- tell me the mental movies you see. The feelings you feel. Can really be big fun if you play with it. But then again i don't really expect you to have much fun with this.. i wish you could but i know you are not me...
Oh, life is bigger
It's bigger than you
And you are not me
The lengths that I will go to
The distance in your eyes
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up
That's me in the corner
That's me in the spotlight, I'm
Losing my religion
Trying to keep up with you
And I don't know if I can do it
Oh no, I've said too much
I haven't said enough
I thought that I heard you laughing
I thought that I heard you sing
I think I thought I saw you try...
But that was just a dream
That was just a dream ~REM
I want to know all about it. I want the whole story uncut and in detail from the inside out. Specifically and graphically is ok if you have to bash and hate me in the process if that is how it all goes down in your head is all just part of the conversation. A conversation that is still only just barely begining.
there is more here but is morning is already in full swing. I need to go for now...
until then, then.
wish i could see you this morning...
funny thing just addressing this to you reminded me of being in gainsville last time - what was that thanksgiving... looking through emails D saw how my sent box and inbox was overly brimming with AJ emails... even SHE knew/could tell who you were to me, right away... was obvious to her without even a discussion.
kisses~
